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Post by Landvogt Werner von Schwyz on Jun 8, 2023 19:36:44 GMT
I will await the input of the belligerent parties on the first motion before any input on our part, but for the second, I would propose to simply amend the Amendment of 1213 as follows:
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Post by Admin Bob on Jun 8, 2023 21:26:49 GMT
The representative from the Amihanan league rose to speak once more
"We agree to the terms as outlined by the speaker, and second both of his proposals."
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Post by Consul Allectus de Gallia on Jun 8, 2023 21:49:30 GMT
The seconds from the Amihanan League are noted.
However, given a similar proposal has been made by the Canton of Helvetia, I will drop my motion in favor of his which I second to be moved to a vote.
We will allow for some time for alternative proposals to be submitted and seconded by this assembly before we move on.
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Post by Serene Doge Marino Medici on Jun 9, 2023 1:55:26 GMT
The representative from the Amihanan league rose to speak "The INVADING Amihanan troops? Have you forgotten how this war began? With your troops invading our own? However Elyria tries to wrap itself in the cloak of innocence, it is the aggressor, it is the invader, it is the one that has threatened our very existence. Your previous "attempts" at terms have been just as ludicrous as your latest one, and we have always proposed status quo ante bellum, something you have never even had on the table. Let all see who exactly is "insisting on bloodshed" when we merely ask for it to be over, while the Elyrians ask for blood, gold and land in return for peace. " We don't dispute, nor make any claim, that Elyria didn't declare war first. However the facts are, ironically, that the Amihanan were more aggressive and invaded for longer in the previous two years. This was what I was referring too when I said we repelled your invasion and occupation, and were making gains of our own. Allectus followed the discussion closely. Letting his eyes dart from one delegate to the other. After a brief pause in the discussion, he would interject to give his opinion on the matter.“My Lords, This matter has already been discussed earlier in the Diet, an armistice has been approved but vetoed and His Holiness the Pope has made it quite clear he no longer wants to see Christian realms at war with one another when there exists an existential threat to all of Christ’s followers and their respective realms within the very borders of Christendom. For that reason, we motion for the following to be considered: This proposal is the same as what was rejected by the majority of voters here before. 3 said no, and a further 3 weren't swayed by it. It isn't just that Elyria has vetoed it that it wasn't good, but that the majority of people here today also didn't approve of this bill. Why prolong a war when our proposal will ensure this conflict will be resolved today? Somehow the realm that threatens the Diet with an ultimatum is the one that is getting its way. Elyria has been nothing but cordial here, offering vast sums of funding and further proposing a means of resolving this war for good, but the belligerent Amihanan who declared they wouldn't help Percia at all if they don't get their way are the one's who you all bow to the most. Who truly is the more aggressive one here, because it looks like you are all being played like a fiddle. They haven't offered anything to support Percia, but cry that Elyria cares not for the desolation in the east, only its own self-interests. But in actuality it is our alliance, including Kressia, that have stepped forward and offered our services with no strings attached irrespective of this conflict. We are on the brink of winning our war if left to us to resolve, even the Amihanan knight has admitted as much, but we adhere to the newly granted rights of His Holiness requesting arbitration and provided a proposal to firmly put this war behind us for good. Hopefully then, the Amihanan realm can actually offer up some form of assistance to Percia, rather than continue to bluster ultimatums before you all.
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Post by Consul Allectus de Gallia on Jun 9, 2023 3:33:58 GMT
“My Lord Doge,
As you have already alluded to, this Diet has shown a general disinterest in the ongoing ons of the northern conflict between Elyria and Amihanan.
The delegates have further demonstrated with their vote that they are either against intervention in the matter or completely disinterested in the conflict itself.
The Amihanan League doesn't hold anymore sway or influence over this Diet than any other delegate. The reason we pursue this matter is due to God’s representative on Earth, His Excellency, His Holiness, the Pope of Reme has requested us to settle this matter to end the spilling of Christian blood to focus on the Sartaq Khan’s horde ravaging the kingdom of Percia.
No mention of this conflict has been made until His Holiness the Pope made a request, not once but twice now, of this Diet to settle the ongoing war in the North. As a legal and religious matter, we are obliged to discuss it and come up with a sensible solution.
Since you have failed to come up with an alternative solution or proposal that is more palatable to the Amihanan League, I don’t find it necessary to continue spending time on this matter when greater issues are at hand.
If you decide to propose something later on, you will be given time to do so.
Now, since there is no clear support for a resolution to end the northern conflict, we can skip over the discuss on Amihanan contribution to the war, which they have already stated they will not contribute as long as their realm in involved in a conflict.
Let us move on now to Commander Evander’s strategy with regards to the Mongols and where he wishes to take command of the assembled forces.
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Post by Serene Doge Marino Medici on Jun 9, 2023 11:08:46 GMT
Our proposal isn't meant to be 'palatable' for the Amihanan delegation, but to signify our imminent victory while also avoiding future bloodshed. The intention of this arbitration is that the Diet does not require Amihanan approval to ensure the fighting is stopped for good. His Holiness seeks peace, and we have provided a means of doing just that by ensuring the justifications Elyria has are resolved, and there won't be a desire to reignite this conflict again in the future. Passing my resolution will ensure no more blood will fall and guarantee that we can finally put this matter behind us for good.
If you'd prefer to return to this matter later in the session, then I am fine with that. But my proposal is what Elyria seeks to guarantee peace, not delay more fighting like the Amihanan delegate desires.
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Post by Admin Bob on Jun 9, 2023 12:09:03 GMT
Our proposal isn't meant to be 'palatable' for the Amihanan delegation, but to signify our imminent victory while also avoiding future bloodshed. The intention of this arbitration is that the Diet does not require Amihanan approval to ensure the fighting is stopped for good. His Holiness seeks peace, and we have provided a means of doing just that by ensuring the justifications Elyria has are resolved, and there won't be a desire to reignite this conflict again in the future. Passing my resolution will ensure no more blood will fall and guarantee that we can finally put this matter behind us for good. If you'd prefer to return to this matter later in the session, then I am fine with that. But my proposal is what Elyria seeks to guarantee peace, not delay more fighting like the Amihanan delegate desires. The representative from the Amihanan league rose to speak once more "There is no guarantee of peace under the Elyrian plan. If the Elyrians think we will simply sit idly by as they occupy our lands, then they are gravely mistaken. A status quo ante bellum peace would however, as the Elyrians keep promising, mean a complete and total peace, one where neither side has any illegal gains, and life as before the war can continue.
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Post by Alfred Von Gewisse on Jun 9, 2023 16:03:22 GMT
I don't think you'll find an appetite to hand over land to one side or another from this Diet. We simply need peace so that all parties can contribute to the effort against the Mongols. What happens after? That is not for us to say.
It is wholly unfair, in our mind, that Gewisse pays for the common defense of Christendom while others exploit a situation for personal gain - whomever they may be.
It is our recommendation that a white peace be signed, with a clause banning further warfare between the states for a period of 5 years. It gives us time to handle the Mongol menace and if they choose war later. So be it.
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Post by Lord-Archon Trajan Evander on Jun 10, 2023 5:09:12 GMT
Lords, Dukes, Assembled Guildmasters, and Merchant-Princes, Having been empowered by this body for a campaign against the Mongol threat, I present my current plan. Only two other rulers in this room know what it is to face these Horse-riders. Meeting them on their terms, in an open field, in pitched battle, cannot defeat them. We must force them to come to us on terrain of our choosing. We must also assemble and arrive united. A split force plays into their strength of mobility. Their warriors and tribes travel light. Carrying with them only arrows, weapons, and leathers made from their prized horses. To counter this, I wish for all nations on campaign this year to consolidate at the red X on the map presented. Then we proceed to our goal: The castle fortress of Percia. Campaign map: imgur.com/i8s3zI1We will follow the route among the coastland forests to provide us superior ground against mass cavalry and arrow swarms. Laying siege to the castle, or securing the ruins, will force the Mongols to meet us on this ground. From there, with sufficient force and mercenary units, we will engage and rout the Mongols and retake the critical fortress.
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Post by Duke Gary da Carlsen on Jun 10, 2023 17:45:27 GMT
How are you planning to take the fortress before winter falls? Also, it seems likely Percia's western city would be under siege by that point.
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Post by Consul Allectus de Gallia on Jun 10, 2023 18:40:42 GMT
I believe this is a sound strategy from Commander Evander.
The Republican forces are estimated to arrive at the designated assembly location by July(Month 5 of campaigning).
We further wish to offer to hire the The Constructors Brotherhood which can provide additional expertise during the siege of the castle or any other location during this campaign.
However, we just have enough to fund half of the company and would ask for another to contribute the other half.
As for Duke Gary’s concerns, I imagine this is the overarching strategy however depending on the situation on the ground, Commander Evander will have to develop separate contingency plans if the situation changes.
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Post by Landvogt Werner von Schwyz on Jun 10, 2023 18:48:15 GMT
I believe this is a sound strategy from Commander Evander. The Republican forces are estimated to arrive at the designated assembly location by July(Month 5 of campaigning). We further wish to offer to hire the The Constructors Brotherhood which can provide additional expertise during the siege of the castle or any other location during this campaign. However, we just have enough to fund half of the company and would ask for another to contribute the other half. As for Duke Gary’s concerns, I imagine this is the overarching strategy however depending on the situation on the ground, Commander Evander will have to develop separate contingency plans if the situation changes. Helvetia promised a sum of coin for a mercenary cavalry outfit, but if no other country or group of countries wishes to match our 500 to hire the Northern Brotherhood, we would be prepared to instead pay 250 to cover the other half of the payment for the Constructor Brotherhood. That is, if there is broad approval for retaking Percia's castle as the strategy for this expedition.
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Post by Consul Allectus de Gallia on Jun 10, 2023 19:13:25 GMT
We thank Landvogt von Schwyz for his offer of support to enlist the Constructor Brotherhood.
We will give some more time for the delegates to comment and provide additional suggestions on Commander Evander’s proposed strategy.
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Post by Lord-Archon Trajan Evander on Jun 10, 2023 19:31:07 GMT
How are you planning to take the fortress before winter falls? Also, it seems likely Percia's western city would be under siege by that point. If the Mongols are already in action against a Percian settlement, we will, as best we can, lift the siege of that place.
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Post by Duke Gary da Carlsen on Jun 10, 2023 19:31:45 GMT
I believe this is a sound strategy from Commander Evander. The Republican forces are estimated to arrive at the designated assembly location by July(Month 5 of campaigning). We further wish to offer to hire the The Constructors Brotherhood which can provide additional expertise during the siege of the castle or any other location during this campaign. However, we just have enough to fund half of the company and would ask for another to contribute the other half. As for Duke Gary’s concerns, I imagine this is the overarching strategy however depending on the situation on the ground, Commander Evander will have to develop separate contingency plans if the situation changes. How would you reach that spot by July? My estimates is it'd take you 6 months to reach it, let alone the lord archon. Additionally, we'd still have to march over to the castle, besiege it, and hope the mongols don't break our siege camp at any point.
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